find my car

[John]

It's getting more frequent now as I age, where it's about once every ten
times I can't for the life of me remember where I parked my car.

Is there an app which I can tap when I park my car, and then when I exit a
store, I can use that app to point to the bearing & distance to the car?

[Alan]

Sure!

It's called an iPhone!

[sms]

<https://www.insider.com/use-this-google-maps-trick-to-find-your-exact-parking-location-2017-8>

[Freethinker]

Very few people have location turned on all the time and even fewer would
want Google to know where they parked their car and for how long they did.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/12/10/business/location-data-privacy-apps.html

Better to get an app which doesn't use the Internet so it can't report back
to the app developer and which serves your purposes alone totally offline.

Almost every offline navigation app will save your current position and
route back to that position, with the type of route set to pedestrian.

Some apps will give you the bearing and distance that you asked for, all
without the Internet so that they can't report back where you parked.

In OSMAnd for example, you press the blue compass to show your location and
then you long press on that resulting blue location dot to create a yellow
circle which defaults to the name "My Position" and which adds a bottom
panel with "Add", "Marker", "Share" & "Actions" any one of which can be
used to save the current location for use with future routing back to it.
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.osmand>
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.osmand.plus>

In "Actions", for example, is "Mark as parking location" with options of
"time unlimited" & "time limited parking" where if you choose the latter, a
timer clock comes up to allow you to set the timer to warn you when needed
and at the bottom is a checkbox for adding a notification to your calendar.

Your parked location shows up in a large blue dot with P inside of it.
When you exit the store, you can see where you are, and for distance, that
same menu has a "measure distance" option but you don't even need that
because the first thing you'll hear when you begin routing to your parked
car is "the trip is one tenth of a mile and the time is less than a minute"
as the voice routing guides you toward your parked vehicle along pathways.

I'll send some other options but that's what I'd first suggest you try.

[Freethinker]

On 18.01.23 10:42, Freethinker wrote:
> I'll send some other options but that's what I'd first suggest you try.

Another option is GPS Waypoint Finder which will give you a distance and
direction to your car even if you don't hold the phone level, as it uses
the accelerometer to convert the magnetic field back to the flat plane.
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.keuwl.gpswaypoints>

You press the waypoint icon and select "New Waypoint" and then "From GPS"
and choose the automobile icon if you like and press the "Done" button.

Wherever you go, if your GPS is turned on, no matter how you hold the
phone, a color coded arrow will point to the vehicle with the distance in
meters where the color changes as you get closer to your parked vehicle.

The app shows your current heading correcting for magnetic declination.

The calculated distance will also be shown as will be your current position
where the units of the distance may change as you get closer to the car.

In testing I noticed the distance units stayed in meters even when I
changed them to feet/miles so maybe you can test that out on your phone.

I'll look to see if I can dig up a parking specific parking spot finder.

[Freethinker]

On 18.01.23 11:07, Freethinker wrote:
> I'll look to see if I can dig up a parking specific parking spot finder.

Unlike my previous suggestions, this is a purpose built parked car locator
tool which is designed from the ground up to be turned on automatically
when you disconnect from your paired bluetooth device inside your vehicle.
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.unagit.parkedcar>

You can also press "Park Car" to set the parked car location manually.

When you leave the store, you can press the "Show in maps" or "Directions"
button, the former will show your car's location and your current location
on a Google map while the latter will pre-fill out the Google Maps
navigations directions fields for you.

I am looking up how to send your current location as a map to someone as
that's another thing you might need when meeting someone at the mall.

[Freethinker]

Freethinker wrote:

> I am looking up how to send your current location as a map to someone as
> that's another thing you might need when meeting someone at the mall.

While my first two suggestions (OSMAnd & GPS Waypoint Finder) work offline
without the Internet, the Parked Car app requires the Internet to give you
a Google map and Google directions to your car so what I am looking for is
a find-my-car app which downloads its own offline database for directions.

Meanwhile, if you have a cellular connection, the GPS to SMS app can send
your current location by SMS to someone that need to meet up with you.
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ru.perm.trubnikov.gps2sms>

This GPS to SMS app has so many options it would take too long to explain.
Suffice to say you can add your messaging app as a Favourite app for easy
one-button access and you can set up "Quick Send Buttons" to send your
current coordinates to anyone via SMS text.

That quick-sent SMS text can be set to provide just the coodinates or the
coordinates preformatted into Google or OpenStreetMap or Yandex formats.

There's nothing preventing you from using that app to save or send a text
to yourself with the coordinates of your parked car, but it's mostly useful
to send someone else the coordinates of where you are for them to meet you.

I'm still looking for a find-my-car app which uses an offline map db,
which is why my first two suggestions (OSMAnd & GPS Waypoint Finder)
fit that need without themselves being purpose-built parked car finders.

[Carlos E.R.]

I bought for my car a little gadget that connects to the OBD port:

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On-board_diagnostics>

It has a GPS, a mobile internet connection, and a wifi access point.
And, needs a contract which in my case costs 3€/month.

In case of accident, it should trigger a call to emergencies. It
provides WiFi and internet for passengers, and, it automatically records
the car position that can be read in a phone application. When the car
stops, that last location is recorded as the parking spot. It also has
some other small features.

(I got it because I needed that Internet connection)

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Andy Burns]

Carlos E.R. wrote:

> I bought for my car a little gadget that connects to the OBD port:
>
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On-board_diagnostics>
>
> It has a GPS, a mobile internet connection, and a wifi access point.
> And, needs a contract which in my case costs 3€/month.
>
> In case of accident, it should trigger a call to emergencies. It
> provides WiFi and internet for passengers, and, it automatically records
> the car position that can be read in a phone application. When the car
> stops, that last location is recorded as the parking spot. It also has
> some other small features.
>
> (I got it because I needed that Internet connection)

cars newer that about 5 years will have all that (the EU eCall system
makes it compulsary) unfortunately with my car, the manufacturer
regarded the functionality as "free" for three years, then chargeable at
a stupid price/month ...

[Carlos E.R.]

Opel had that feature before it was mandatory. Then the company was sold
to PSA, but apparently not including this remote help system. Thus my
Opel Corsa (bought 2019) didn't have it.


--
Cheers, Carlos.

[AJL]

On 1/17/2023 11:38 PM, sms wrote:

> <https://www.insider.com/use-this-google-maps-trick-to-find-your-exact-parking-location-2017-8>

I'm surprised how far my key fob will transmit. So I hit the lock button
twice and listen for the honk. Course it gets less useful as my hearing
declines...

[s|b]

On Wed, 18 Jan 2023 05:53:41 +0100, John wrote:

> Is there an app which I can tap when I park my car, and then when I exit a
> store, I can use that app to point to the bearing & distance to the car?

IIRC Google Maps has this built in. Some cars (Toyota) offer an app
where this is built in, but I guess Google Maps is the easiest.

--
s|b

[Andy Burnelli]

s|b wrote:

>> Is there an app which I can tap when I park my car, and then when I exit a
>> store, I can use that app to point to the bearing & distance to the car?
>
> IIRC Google Maps has this built in. Some cars (Toyota) offer an app
> where this is built in, but I guess Google Maps is the easiest.

Having owned just about every Garmin device ever sold before smartphones, I
will never say Google Maps isn't just about the best there is for
accuracy...

However...

The main problem with Google Maps is the Internet is required for it to
work as designed, or, if you download maps, then you need to log in.

I don't know if the Google Maps parking feature works on offline maps.
Does it?

Even so, you have to put an account on the phone for offline maps nowadays
(last I checked - and I used offline maps for years until they did that).

The sad result is...

Nobody who cares about privacy wants to need either of those two things.

I installed all the suggested apps so far, and I'll test them out myself
as I am wont to do. I ran a search using the FOSS Google Play Store client
which showed that almost all the parked car location apps had ads.

I think all of the ones I saw, required GSF spyware, which is probably the
nature of the beast since they all seem to make use of the Google Maps too.

But the nice thing about the parked car location apps is they have features
you might like such as automatic settings for bluetooth, timers for parking
meters, separate profiles for each car, keeping track of the best parking
spots you've used in the past, and even share your favorite parking spots
with friends (according to their advertisements), etc., all of which I got
from the blurb in the following free ad free app below.

This one wasn't mentioned yet in this thread but it seems to be capable.
*Car Location* by DigitalBox Studios
Free, ad free, requires GSF, no rating, no reviews, only 500+ downloads
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.carparking.location>

Note most people would never _find_ these low-volume ad free apps because
they don't use a FOSS Google Play Store client, which easily finds them.

[Andy Burnelli]

Andy Burnelli wrote:

> This one wasn't mentioned yet in this thread but it seems to be capable.
> *Car Location* by DigitalBox Studios
> Free, ad free, requires GSF, no rating, no reviews, only 500+ downloads
> <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.carparking.location>

Drat.
Even as I had Google Location Services "Google Location Accuracy" turned
off, this app turned it on even though the GPS radio was already turned on.

This app also turned on "Wi-Fi Scanning", which was also (_always_) turned
off, and then when I doublechecked the other apps, they all did the same.

Even OSMAnd+ turned these things on, so they're all likely calling a
Google-specific Activity (usually it's a "gms" activity, aka "Google Mobile
Services) which is _different_ (sleazier) from 'normal' turn-on-location
Activities.

If anyone can make the app work _without_ precise location set, that would
be a good thing for everyone's privacy, since you just don't need that in a
parking lot (and it won't be available in the larger parking lots anyway).

Every day it takes more and more intelligence to overcome these privacy
defeating Google Activities that are linked into the GSF spyware (which all
the parked-car finder apps seemed to have linked into their base code).

I tried to sneak around the requirement for precise location by turning off
the Wi-Fi radio, and then turning off wifi_scan_always_available (aka Wi-Fi
Scanning) in the Android 12 settings - but the app turned them back on.

All the mentioned parking lot apps _refused_ to work if you didn't have
_both_ Google Location Services > Google Location Accuracy turned on and
background Wi-Fi Scanning turned on (whether or not your Wi-Fi radio or GPS
radio was on).

It didn't use to be this hard to maintain your privacy.

It used to be that if you turned on the GPS radio on your own, you were
fine because the app would use the GPS - but not apps require Wi-Fi BSSIDs.

There's no reason to _require_ it.
It's likely part of the GSF spyware code, I suspect.

End result, if any find my parked car app links in GSF spyware, which,
apparently, all the ones suggested so far do, then you can't find your car
offline with any measure of privacy.

What's needed is a parked car finder app that uses _only_ GPS (offline).
Does it exist?

[Tobiah]

Just as easy, or even much easier would be to recite to yourself instructions
for finding your car as though you were describing it to a friend that was
going to pick it up. "I'm in the second row to the left of the main entrance
between the pepper tree and the cart return".

You should now have no problem locating your car when you get done shopping.

I used to have the habit of texting myself my parking lot section when leaving
my car at the airport, "You're in 2B". I then would not need to check my texts
when I returned to the lot, as the act of texting the section ID burned it into
my memory sufficiently.

[David Oseas]

On 1/17/2023 8:53 PM, John wrote:

>

> Is there an app which I can tap when I park my car, and then when I exit a
> store, I can use that app to point to the bearing & distance to the car?
>

Several years ago, Google Maps used to do this automatically [and came
to my wife's rescue, who got lost in an unfamiliar area]. Now, you need
to long press on the blue dot to have it remember your parking location.

There are also dedicated apps for this purpose, such as "Car Find" by Aurum.

-David

[Andy Burnelli]

David Oseas wrote:

> Several years ago, Google Maps used to do this automatically [and came
> to my wife's rescue, who got lost in an unfamiliar area]. Now, you need
> to long press on the blue dot to have it remember your parking location.
>
> There are also dedicated apps for this purpose, such as "Car Find" by Aurum.

Is this it?
*Find my parked car* by Aurum App, Contains ads & In-app purchases
Free, has ads, requires GSF, 4.6 star, 32.7K reviews, 1M+ Downloads
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=it.carfind>

[Alan]

Or you get an iPhone...

...and when you drive somewhere, it figures out you've been driving...

...and then marks where your car is automatically.

[sms]

You can also use an old Android phone wired into vehicle power and use
an SMS Locator App. I detailed this in the document
<docs.google.com/document/d/1JznrWfGJDA8CYVfjSnPTwfVy8-gAC0kPyaApuJTcUNE>
#206a on page 101.

In the U.S. there's a free service (FreedomPop) that gives you 10 SMS
per month on AT&T's network (there used to be a free plan with 100 SMS
on T-Mobile's network but it was recently discontinued). The 10 SMS
would cover 5 location queries. For $3.50 per month you can get 50 SMS
on Verizon's network (US Mobile) and for $5 per month you can get
unlimited SMS on AT&T's network (H2O). For $2.50 per month you can get
1000 SMS on T-Mobile's network (Red Pocket) but T-Mobile's coverage is
severely lacking in many parts of the U.S. including the SF Bay Area.

This kind of tracking is actually better than a LoJack because you can
see where your vehicle is yourself, with LoJack you have to get the
police to locate it.

Of course you can pay more and get a data connection so you can have a
Wi-Fi hotspot but it's a lot more than 3€ for a usable amount of data.
$10/month for 2GB of data is about the best you can do.

[sms]

I'm sure that CoPilot would also work, but I don't think that there's a
free option.

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2023-01-18 23:32, sms wrote:

...

> Of course you can pay more and get a data connection so you can have a
> Wi-Fi hotspot but it's a lot more than 3€ for a usable amount of data.
> $10/month for 2GB of data is about the best you can do.

I got 10 gigs of data for those 3 euros when I bought the device. May be
more now, dunno. Oh, yes, the app says I get 20 gigs. :-))

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Andy Burnelli]

Carlos E.R. wrote:

>> Of course you can pay more and get a data connection so you can have a
>> Wi-Fi hotspot but it's a lot more than 3¤ for a usable amount of data.
>> $10/month for 2GB of data is about the best you can do.
>
> I got 10 gigs of data for those 3 euros when I bought the device. May be
> more now, dunno. Oh, yes, the app says I get 20 gigs. :-))

I have 200MB for life on my iPads, which is maybe enough for this purpose.

[Allodoxaphobia]

On Wed, 18 Jan 2023 10:05:50 -0800, Tobiah wrote:
> On 1/17/23 20:53, John wrote:
>> It's getting more frequent now as I age, where it's about once every
>> ten times I can't for the life of me remember where I parked my car.
>

> I used to have the habit of texting myself my parking lot section when
> leaving my car at the airport, "You're in 2B". I then would not need
> to check my texts when I returned to the lot, as the act of texting
> the section ID burned it into my memory sufficiently.

I like this idea. And you would be 'comfortable' in its use to
make it damn useful when/if you ever rent or borrow a vehicle --
a vehicle which you may not easily recognize. :-)

Jonesy
--
Marvin L Jones | Marvin | W3DHJ.net | linux
38.238N 104.547W | @ jonz.net | Jonesy | FreeBSD
* Killfiling google & XXXXbanter.com: jonz.net/ng.htm

[David Oseas]

On 1/18/2023 12:20 PM, Andy Burnelli wrote:

>
> Is this it?
> *Find my parked car* by Aurum App, Contains ads & In-app purchases
> Free, has ads, requires GSF, 4.6 star, 32.7K reviews, 1M+ Downloads
> <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=it.carfind>

I think it is the same app: it has the same icon as the one I have
installed, but mine is labelled "Car Find". If I click on App Info, it
does go to the "Find my parked car" app in Google Play Store.

Disclaimer: I really don't use the app any more -- I don't think I've
fired it up any time in the past 5 years -- on the few occasions I've
recently needed the functionality, I've used Google Maps.

-David

[David Oseas]

On 1/18/2023 1:27 PM, Alan wrote:

> Or you get an iPhone...
> ...and when you drive somewhere, it figures out you've been driving...
> ...and then marks where your car is automatically.

Or you buy a Tesla. The app will tell you where you've parked it & the
app will run on any phone, so you're not stuck in Apple jail.

[Ken Blake]

On 19 Jan 2023 18:38:17 GMT, Allodoxaphobia <trepi...@example.net>
wrote:

>On Wed, 18 Jan 2023 10:05:50 -0800, Tobiah wrote:
>> On 1/17/23 20:53, John wrote:
>>> It's getting more frequent now as I age, where it's about once every
>>> ten times I can't for the life of me remember where I parked my car.
>>
>> I used to have the habit of texting myself my parking lot section when
>> leaving my car at the airport, "You're in 2B". I then would not need
>> to check my texts when I returned to the lot, as the act of texting
>> the section ID burned it into my memory sufficiently.
>
>I like this idea. And you would be 'comfortable' in its use to
>make it damn useful when/if you ever rent or borrow a vehicle --
>a vehicle which you may not easily recognize. :-)

That idea wouldn't work for me. If I could remember to check and see
that I was in 2B (or not 2B), I'd remember 2B without texting it.

[Ken Blake]

On Thu, 19 Jan 2023 11:32:26 -0800, David Oseas
<doseas{nospam}@usa.net> wrote:

>On 1/18/2023 1:27 PM, Alan wrote:
>
>> Or you get an iPhone...
>> ...and when you drive somewhere, it figures out you've been driving...
>> ...and then marks where your car is automatically.
>
>Or you buy a Tesla.

An expensive solution to a simple problem.

[sms]

Data in the U.S. is very expensive per GB in small quantities. My 4
person plan with 100GB of high-speed data (unlimited low speed once
high-speed is used up) is $98 with tax. That's less than $1 per GB. But
for a plan with only 1GB of data, on a reliable network, it's $8.25, and
only if you pay for a year at a time. 2GB, paid monthly, is $10.

If someone only needs the car locator function a few times a month, then
the AT&T/Freedom Pop free plan (10 voice minutes, 10 SMS, and 25 MB),
paired with an old Android phone, would work fine to use with an SMS
Locator App, which needs no data at all but each query uses up 2 SMS.

You can also buy a very low-end Android phone, complete with a year of
service on Verizon's network (1500 minutes, 1500 texts and 1500MB of
data for 365 days) for $29.99 ($39.99-$10 off)
<https://www.hsn.com/products/tcl-a3-tracfone-bundle-with-1500-mintextdata/20689899>
which would work great for a "poor man's LoJack." Actually it's better
than a real LoJack.

Someone in another group was asking about tracking a shipment of
household goods in a moving van, using an AirTag. But AirTags require
someone passing by with an iPhone in order to provide a location, and
inside a moving van that's unlikely. There was an article about someone
who mailed an AirTag across the world and tracked it. When the package
was outside on a pallet, or inside a warehouse, or in a postal vehicle,
he could see it as long as someone with an iPhone was close by.

[nospam]

In article <tqcbi8$1eoh$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, sms

<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

> Someone in another group was asking about tracking a shipment of
> household goods in a moving van, using an AirTag. But AirTags require
> someone passing by with an iPhone in order to provide a location, and
> inside a moving van that's unlikely.

not only is it likely, but many people have done exactly that and it
works quite well. one person even put an airtag inside a metal zero
halliburton case, then put inside his car, and it was trackable.

you clearly have never used an airtag. you are lying and deliberately
spreading disinformation about what airtags can and cannot do.

> There was an article about someone
> who mailed an AirTag across the world and tracked it.

there have been several such articles, and in every case, it worked
well, contradicting your claim above that it doesn't work.

[The Real Bev]

On 1/18/23 12:42 AM, Freethinker wrote:

> On 18.01.23 09:38, sms wrote:
>>> It's getting more frequent now as I age, where it's about once every ten
>>> times I can't for the life of me remember where I parked my car.
>>>

>>> Is there an app which I can tap when I park my car, and then when I exit a
>>> store, I can use that app to point to the bearing & distance to the car?
>>

>> <https://www.insider.com/use-this-google-maps-trick-to-find-your-exact-parking-location-2017-8>
>
> Very few people have location turned on all the time and even fewer would
> want Google to know where they parked their car and for how long they did.
> https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/12/10/business/location-data-privacy-apps.html
>
> Better to get an app which doesn't use the Internet so it can't report back
> to the app developer and which serves your purposes alone totally offline.

I have no data plan. Having a GPS-only function is essential. Is there
one that does this? I haven't read the entire thread yet...

> Almost every offline navigation app will save your current position and
> route back to that position, with the type of route set to pedestrian.
>
> Some apps will give you the bearing and distance that you asked for, all
> without the Internet so that they can't report back where you parked.
>
> In OSMAnd for example, you press the blue compass to show your location and
> then you long press on that resulting blue location dot to create a yellow
> circle which defaults to the name "My Position" and which adds a bottom
> panel with "Add", "Marker", "Share" & "Actions" any one of which can be
> used to save the current location for use with future routing back to it.
> <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.osmand>
> <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.osmand.plus>

OSMAnd is, unfortunately, REALLY battery-hungry. I last used it a few
years ago, and I really liked the fact that it saved a track, but the
battery thing -- along with the change-the-UI-with-every-update thing --
made me quit.

--
Cheers, Bev
"Never keep up with the Joneses. Drag them down to your level.
It's cheaper." -- Quentin Crisp 1908 - 1999

[The Real Bev]

On 1/18/23 9:05 AM, AJL wrote:
> On 1/17/2023 11:38 PM, sms wrote:
>
>> <https://www.insider.com/use-this-google-maps-trick-to-find-your-exact-parking-location-2017-8>

Mine looked nothing like that. Updating my apps (111 of them!) so
perhaps that will make the difference.

> I'm surprised how far my key fob will transmit. So I hit the lock button
> twice and listen for the honk. Course it gets less useful as my hearing
> declines...

We tried this in the parking lot of the L.A. County Fair a while back.
Took quite a while, with occasional lamppost-climbs. Beeped within
50-100 feet.. Better to actually REMEMBER where you parked :-(

--
Cheers, Bev
Children, your performance was miserable. Your parents will
all receive phone calls instructing them to love you less.

[The Real Bev]

If that's through Freedompop, "life" is a lot shorter than you think :-(

[AJL]

On 1/19/2023 2:05 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 1/18/23 9:05 AM, AJL wrote:

>> I'm surprised how far my key fob will transmit. So I hit the lock
>> button twice and listen for the honk. Course it gets less useful
>> as my hearing declines...

> We tried this in the parking lot of the L.A. County Fair a while
> back. Took quite a while, with occasional lamppost-climbs. Beeped
> within 50-100 feet..

My key fob does a bit better than that but I still have to be within the
general area. If that fails I have an app (came with the car) that will
locate it for me. The app will also remote start and pre-cool the car.
When it's 105F+ outside (and 140F inside the locked car) I start it 5
minutes before leaving the store. Cool store to cool car. Ain't life
wonderful...

> Better to actually REMEMBER where you parked :-(

Yup. And of course our memory gets better with age...right?

[nospam]

In article <tqcf0p$1njps$2...@dont-email.me>, The Real Bev

<bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > I have 200MB for life on my iPads, which is maybe enough for this purpose.
>
> If that's through Freedompop, "life" is a lot shorter than you think :-(

it's directly through t-mobile and officially expires in 2099.

[nospam]

In article <tqcduh$1neu3$1...@dont-email.me>, The Real Bev

<bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> I have no data plan.

still?

> Having a GPS-only function is essential.

no wifi either?

>
> OSMAnd is, unfortunately, REALLY battery-hungry.

anything that uses the gps is battery hungry.

[Andy Burnelli]

David Oseas wrote:

>> *Find my parked car* by Aurum App, Contains ads & In-app purchases
>> Free, has ads, requires GSF, 4.6 star, 32.7K reviews, 1M+ Downloads
>> <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=it.carfind>
>
> I think it is the same app: it has the same icon as the one I have
> installed, but mine is labelled "Car Find". If I click on App Info, it
> does go to the "Find my parked car" app in Google Play Store.
>
> Disclaimer: I really don't use the app any more -- I don't think I've
> fired it up any time in the past 5 years -- on the few occasions I've
> recently needed the functionality, I've used Google Maps.

Thanks for that confirmation that it's the same app you had suggested.

Immediately I tested it out, but as per this thread, it unilaterally removed
my privacy settings (just like all the other dedicated car finder apps did).
*Do you know if there is a way to permanently disable precise location?*
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/ggawmi_4tAc>

For most people who probably don't even care if "precise location" and
"Wi-Fi scanning" is turned on, these vehicle finder apps are probably ok.

But, for privacy-aware people like I am, it's terrible the apps do this:
Google Location Accuracy = assisted_gps_enabled
Wi-Fi scanning = wifi_scan_always_enabled
Bluetooth scanning = ble_scan_always_enabled

While this is OK for an app to want to set that needs GPS location:
android.permission.ACCESS_COURSE_LOCATION

It's terrible the car parking apps set these permissions for themselves:
android.permission.ACCESS_FINE_LOCATION
android.permission.ACCESS_BACKGROUND_LOCATION

The good news is we can manage these permissions using adb from the PC
according to research results when I googled for how to solve this problem.
a. Connect the phone to the PC by USB or to the LAN via Wi-Fi
adb devices
b. To revoke permission for any given app:
adb shell pm revoke <sample.package.id> android.permission.<PERMISSION_NAME>
c. To add permission for any given app:
adb shell pm grant <sample.package.id> android.permission.<PERMISSION_NAME>

For example, to revoke fine location for this app:
C:\> adb shell pm revoke ggawmi_4tAc android.permission.ACCESS_FINE_LOCATION

To re-enable fine location for this app:
C:\> adb shell pm grant ggawmi_4tAc android.permission.ACCESS_FINE_LOCATION

What I will try to do when I have a chance is this sequence below:
1. I will run the app, which will unilaterally turn on fine location
2. I will use adb to turn of fine location permission for the app
3. I will try to run the app

I suspect the app won't run without the fine permission (even though
the app doesn't need fine location), but I don't know whether or not
the app will even work when I pull that rug out from underneath it.

However...
If it does not notice I unset the permission, then I can use the app!

[Your Name]

On 2023-01-20 09:01:15 +0000, Ken Blake said:

>>> Or you get an iPhone...
>>> ...and when you drive somewhere, it figures out you've been driving...
>>> ...and then marks where your car is automatically.
>>
>>Or you buy a Tesla.
>
> An expensive solution to a simple problem.

Are you really that stupid that you don't get why he brought up the Tesla?

[Andy Burnelli]

The Real Bev wrote:

>> Better to get an app which doesn't use the Internet so it can't report back
>> to the app developer and which serves your purposes alone totally offline.
>
> I have no data plan. Having a GPS-only function is essential.

Hi The Real Bev,

I don't disagree with you that any app that is fundamentally a GPS app,
should be able to point you toward your car WITHOUT needing the Internet.

All it should need is GPS, and, a compass bearing and distance to your car.
Luckily two free apps were suggested in this thread that do just that.

This free app points to your car's location & tells you the distance to it.
*GPS Waypoint Finder* by keuwlsoft
free, ad free, gsf free, 3.9 star, 1.35K reviews, 100K+ Downloads
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.keuwl.gpswaypoints>
That app does not need the Internet and doesn't even ask for the Internet.

In addition, it was suggested you can text anyone your car's location.
GPS to SMS - location sharing by Tralchonok Labs
free, ad free, gsf free, 3.6 star, 787 reviews, 100K+ Downloads
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ru.perm.trubnikov.gps2sms>

That needs a cellular signal, but it uses SMS (not MMS) so there's no need
to use data (the suggestion is you can text yourself the location text).

> Is there one that does this?

Three apps were suggested but in my tests, all needed the Internet.

*Parked Car* by Myroslav Kolodii
Free, ad free, requires GSF, 4.4 star, 179 reviews, 10K+Downloads
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.unagit.parkedcar>

*Car Location* by DigitalBox Studios

Free, ad free, requires GSF, not rated, not reviewed, 500+Downloads
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.carparking.location>

*Find my parked car* by Aurum App

Free, has ads, requires GSF, 4.6 star, 32.7K reviews, 1M+ Downloads
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=it.carfind>

> I haven't read the entire thread yet...

If you read the thread, you'll find I found a nasty privacy flaw in all
three of those find-my-car apps, and that flaw is also in OSMAnd~ too!

> OSMAnd is, unfortunately, REALLY battery-hungry. I last used it a few
> years ago, and I really liked the fact that it saved a track, but the
> battery thing -- along with the change-the-UI-with-every-update thing --
> made me quit.

The good thing about OSMAnd~ is that it is an offline map so it can route
you toward your car along known pedestrian paths without the Internet.

Even if the free ad free OSMAnd~ is battery hungry, you only need it to set
your car's location when you park the car, and then you can turn it off
unless you need it later to find the location of that parked car.

I agree the GUI is not intuitive for some of the simplest of things,
but luckily OSMAnd~ has a special "Actions" button for parked cars.

OSMAnd~ even has a parking meter timer in that Actions button, so it's not
a bad replacement for Google Maps which needs the Internet (I can't test if
the Google Maps parking feature works on downloaded maps ever since Google
removed that capability for people who don't have a Google Account).

Since most people have a Google Account on their phone, _they_ can test for
the team if offline Google Maps still do the find-my-car feature or not.
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to disseminate useful information
which, in this case, is to answer The Real Bev's questions about apps.

[Carlos E.R.]

I take a photo of the parking spot when it is numbered :-)

If parking on the street, the photo would have the GPS coordinates and
thus we can find it :-D

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Carlos E.R.]

I use OSMAnd, but it has so many options that it is difficult a month
later to remember what option activated some thing in the map that now I
want to remove but do not remember what activated it. And if the UI
changed, it becomes nearly impossible.

Any tool that records a track has to use the GPS a lot (some tools have
a config for the frequency), and this is memory hungry. And some phones
seem to be very bad at this: I remember draining almost all the battery
when recording a two hour walk with a previous phone, but the current
one barely notices.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Tobiah]

That was my point. Skip the phone and do a trivial mental exercise
that takes less effort than pulling out the phone and loading an
app and pushing a button.

[Alan]

Or get a phone that just takes care of it for you...

...like an iPhone does?

(If I were Arlen, I'd now make a duplicate of this post with a new
subject, but I'm not quite the narcissist he is).

[The Real Bev]

For some reason we simply did not notice -- possibly talking about
something serious -- the large signs placed around to enable people to
find their cars. Not forgetting, just not KNOWING. Do you know how
many forest-green Expeditions there are in your average large parking
lot? MILLIONS!


--
Cheers, Bev
Hmph. I used to have snow tires. Never again. They melted in the
spring. I won't even start going on about my wood stove.
-- websurf1

[The Real Bev]

On 1/19/23 5:30 PM, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> The Real Bev wrote:
>
>>> Better to get an app which doesn't use the Internet so it can't report back
>>> to the app developer and which serves your purposes alone totally offline.
>>
>> I have no data plan. Having a GPS-only function is essential.
>
> Hi The Real Bev,
>
> I don't disagree with you that any app that is fundamentally a GPS app,
> should be able to point you toward your car WITHOUT needing the Internet.
>
> All it should need is GPS, and, a compass bearing and distance to your car.
> Luckily two free apps were suggested in this thread that do just that.
>
> This free app points to your car's location & tells you the distance to it.
> *GPS Waypoint Finder* by keuwlsoft
> free, ad free, gsf free, 3.9 star, 1.35K reviews, 100K+ Downloads
> <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.keuwl.gpswaypoints>
> That app does not need the Internet and doesn't even ask for the Internet.

Downloading even as we speak, but the play store seems a bit balky. I
was hoping that there was one like this that would tap into a google
off-line map and show the actual locatiou, but an arrow and distance is
probably good enough.

> Since most people have a Google Account on their phone, _they_ can test for
> the team if offline Google Maps still do the find-my-car feature or not.

I hunted, with no success. Android 11, not sure which Maps version. I
have a lot of apps, and Maps hadn't updated yet. The appearance was not
at all similar to the instructions given in a previous post.

[The Real Bev]

Curiously enough, Ski Tracks is really good about battery usage. It
will save a path in .gpx, kmz and kml formats and save it forever --
unless you screw up trying to save it -- the buttons needed to save a
track aren't sufficiently contrasty to be seen in bright sunlight. It
tries to convert everything to ski runs, which is entertaining if you're
not actually skiing, but you can feed the files into google earth. I
think it costs a buck, and I've used it for maybe 10 years.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.corecoders.skitracks

$1.50 now. Well worth the price.

[AJL]

On 1/20/2023 4:27 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 1/19/23 3:44 PM, AJL wrote:
>> On 1/19/2023 2:05 PM, The Real Bev wrote:

>>> Better to actually REMEMBER where you parked :-(

>> Yup. And of course our memory gets better with age...right?

> For some reason we simply did not notice -- possibly talking about
> something serious -- the large signs placed around to enable people
> to find their cars. Not forgetting, just not KNOWING. Do you know
> how many forest-green Expeditions there are in your average large
> parking lot? MILLIONS!

Of course. It's the same conspiracy I suffer at the parking lots I
attend that hide my car behind several bigger cars (like Expeditions)...

[The Real Bev]

On 1/20/23 4:22 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> I take a photo of the parking spot when it is numbered :-)
>
> If parking on the street, the photo would have the GPS coordinates and
> thus we can find it :-D

Bastard. I wish I'd thought of that!


--
Cheers, Bev
You need only three tools: WD-40, duct tape and a hammer. If it doesn't
move and it should, use WD-40. If it moves and shouldn't, use duct tape.
If you can't fix it with a hammer you've got an electrical problem.

[micky]

In comp.mobile.android, on Wed, 18 Jan 2023 05:53:41 +0100, John

<jo...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>It's getting more frequent now as I age, where it's about once every ten
>times I can't for the life of me remember where I parked my car.
>

>Is there an app which I can tap when I park my car, and then when I exit a
>store, I can use that app to point to the bearing & distance to the car?

This only works for the last block but...

Next car, get a light-colored car.

When I had a dark-green car, every time I turned the corner walking to
where my car should be, I coudln't find it and I thought it was stolen,
even when it was there.

Later I got light-colored cars and I see them even when I'm not looking
for them.

Plus other drivers are less likely to hit me.

[micky]

In comp.mobile.android, on Wed, 18 Jan 2023 10:42:32 +0200, Freethinker
<freet...@mymail.com> wrote:

>On 18.01.23 09:38, sms wrote:
>>> It's getting more frequent now as I age, where it's about once every ten
>>> times I can't for the life of me remember where I parked my car.
>>>
>>> Is there an app which I can tap when I park my car, and then when I exit a
>>> store, I can use that app to point to the bearing & distance to the car?
>>

>> <https://www.insider.com/use-this-google-maps-trick-to-find-your-exact-parking-location-2017-8>
>
>Very few people have location turned on all the time and even fewer would
>want Google to know where they parked their car and for how long they did.
>https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/12/10/business/location-data-privacy-apps.html

You do give other suggestions, but ftr, I don't care if people know
where my car is parked or for how long. I looked at the URL above and
its concerns don't apply to me or anyone I know, or most other people, I
think.

My car is distinctive because of the model and bumper stickers. I
suppose if someone who knew me saw it, he might look for me and say
hello. But I don't see how anyone who has anything to do with me can
use google to find my car.

"Businesses say their interest is in the patterns, not the identities,
that the data reveals about consumers. They note that the information
apps collect is tied not to someone’s name or phone number but to a
unique ID. But those with access to the raw data — including employees
or clients — could still identify a person without consent." No one I
know has access to the raw data.

(I care that everyone knows I'm not home and that it's a good time to
break into the house, but anyone can tell that by looking where my car
is usually parked.)

[AJL]

On 1/21/2023 10:39 AM, micky wrote:

> When I had a dark-green car, every time I turned the corner walking to
> where my car should be, I coudln't find it and I thought it was stolen,
> even when it was there.

In one of my past lives you would be surprised at how many stolen car
reports turned out to be misparked cars...

[micky]

In comp.mobile.android, on Thu, 19 Jan 2023 15:44:39 -0800, AJL

<noe...@none.com> wrote:

>On 1/19/2023 2:05 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
>> On 1/18/23 9:05 AM, AJL wrote:
>
>>> I'm surprised how far my key fob will transmit. So I hit the lock
>>> button twice and listen for the honk. Course it gets less useful
>>> as my hearing declines...
>
>> We tried this in the parking lot of the L.A. County Fair a while
>> back. Took quite a while, with occasional lamppost-climbs. Beeped
>> within 50-100 feet..

It's been 50 years and if they had fobs then, I didn't have one.

And I took a girl to the NY Mets game on a first date. When it was over,
I coudln't find the car. Very unlike me. Had to wait until almost
everyone left and then I could see it. I think the car was white but
that doesn't help if it's not in sight. It turned out she was 10 years
older than I was and probably didn't want some immature foolish guy, and
she told me she didn't want to go out again, but I she still went out
with me some more.

[The Real Bev]

And then there's the story about the gun-toting little old lady who
forced the thieves out of her car only to find that her key didn't start
it and that it wasn't actually HER car.

--
Cheers, Bev
______________________________________________________
"Parasites plus suckers do not add up to a community."
-- Thomas Sowell

[The Real Bev]

On 1/21/23 9:50 AM, AJL wrote:

I just updated my google Maps and found out how to mark my parking
location via the Help function. Tap the blue circle to find your
location and then tap the blue dot that it generates. I'm at home and
haven't been able to actually try it when I'm away. I tried it once
here and it offered me the option to save the parking place, but when I
tried it again it did nothing.

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2023-01-21 20:33, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 1/21/23 9:50 AM, AJL wrote:
>> On 1/21/2023 10:39 AM, micky wrote:
>>
>>> When I had a dark-green car, every time I turned the corner walking to
>>> where my car should be, I coudln't find it and I thought it was stolen,
>>> even when it was there.
>>
>> In one of my past lives you would be surprised at how many stolen car
>> reports turned out to be misparked cars...
>
> And then there's the story about the gun-toting little old lady who
> forced the thieves out of her car only to find that her key didn't start
> it and that it wasn't actually HER car.

LOL :-DD

However, I would not laugh if the car were mine and I had seen the
hollow of the gun pointed at me. I would need a doctor.


--
Cheers, Carlos.

[AJL]

On 1/21/2023 12:41 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 1/21/23 9:50 AM, AJL wrote:
>> On 1/21/2023 10:39 AM, micky wrote:

>>> When I had a dark-green car, every time I turned the corner
>>> walking to where my car should be, I coudln't find it and I
>>> thought it was stolen, even when it was there.

>> In one of my past lives you would be surprised at how many stolen
>> car reports turned out to be misparked cars...

I might add that those misparked "stolen" cars were often found by the
graveyard shift when all the other cars were gone. The "victims" were
then called to come get their car. If they couldn't be reached the cars
were towed. Bad day made worse...

> I just updated my google Maps and found out how to mark my parking
> location via the Help function. Tap the blue circle to find your
> location and then tap the blue dot that it generates. I'm at home
> and haven't been able to actually try it when I'm away. I tried it
> once here and it offered me the option to save the parking place,
> but when I tried it again it did nothing.

Perhaps because it thinks you are already at your recorded parking
space (home)?

[The Real Bev]

On 1/21/23 11:51 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2023-01-21 20:33, The Real Bev wrote:
>> On 1/21/23 9:50 AM, AJL wrote:
>>> On 1/21/2023 10:39 AM, micky wrote:
>>>
>>>> When I had a dark-green car, every time I turned the corner walking to
>>>> where my car should be, I coudln't find it and I thought it was stolen,
>>>> even when it was there.
>>>
>>> In one of my past lives you would be surprised at how many stolen car
>>> reports turned out to be misparked cars...
>>
>> And then there's the story about the gun-toting little old lady who
>> forced the thieves out of her car only to find that her key didn't start
>> it and that it wasn't actually HER car.

Apparently the guys reported the carjacking to the police and the woman
turned herself in and apologized. I hope it was a true story.

> LOL :-DD
>
> However, I would not laugh if the car were mine and I had seen the
> hollow of the gun pointed at me. I would need a doctor.

--

Cheers, Bev
"Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey
and car keys to teenage boys." -- P.J. O'Rourke

[Andy Burnelli]

The Real Bev wrote:

> I just updated my google Maps and found out how to mark my parking
> location via the Help function. Tap the blue circle to find your
> location and then tap the blue dot that it generates. I'm at home and
> haven't been able to actually try it when I'm away. I tried it once
> here and it offered me the option to save the parking place, but when I
> tried it again it did nothing.

Hi The Real Bev,

I don't like to ask you to do work that I wouldn't do myself, but there's
no way I'm gonna create a Google Account on my phone to test this but...

But...

If you get a chance, can you test, for the team, out of the goodness of
your heart, if that find-my-car Google Maps feature works with offline
Google maps?

If it does work with the Offline Google Maps, then that negates the need
for the Internet.

Thanks!

[The Real Bev]

Could be. No idea how it tells you where your car is when you ask...
Next time I go shopping I'll give it a shot.

[The Real Bev]

On 1/21/23 1:58 PM, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> The Real Bev wrote:
>
>> I just updated my google Maps and found out how to mark my parking
>> location via the Help function. Tap the blue circle to find your
>> location and then tap the blue dot that it generates. I'm at home and
>> haven't been able to actually try it when I'm away. I tried it once
>> here and it offered me the option to save the parking place, but when I
>> tried it again it did nothing.
>
> Hi The Real Bev,
>
> I don't like to ask you to do work that I wouldn't do myself, but there's
> no way I'm gonna create a Google Account on my phone to test this but...
>
> But...
>
> If you get a chance, can you test, for the team, out of the goodness of
> your heart, if that find-my-car Google Maps feature works with offline
> Google maps?

That's exactly wht I'm going to try next time I go shopping. No
goodness involved, just curiosity!

I have various google accounts already. If they want to try to sell me
something or report my activities to the FBI it's a waste of their time,
not mine.

> If it does work with the Offline Google Maps, then that negates the need
> for the Internet.
>
> Thanks!
>

[Andy Burnelli]

The Real Bev wrote:

> That's exactly wht I'm going to try next time I go shopping. No

> goodness involved, just curiosity.

But you need to download the offline map _ahead_ of time.
When you're at home.
Before you park your car.

I doubt it will work - but maybe Google made it so that it would work.
That's why I asked.

Here's how to do that (which is useful in and of itself, without parking).
*Download areas & navigate offline*
<https://support.google.com/maps/answer/6291838?hl=en&co=GENIE.Platform%3DAndroid>

> I have various google accounts already. If they want to try to sell me
> something or report my activities to the FBI it's a waste of their time,
> not mine.

While I understand that 'self centered' view perfectly well, there's more
to the story because you're actually harming others with that attitude.

It's a normal attitude by the way, so I'm not chastising you.
I'm just saying your attitude doesn't take into account you're harming me.

The problem with Google products on Android is they're sort of like a
suicide vest in that they harm everyone around you with their payload.

For example, you're uploading _my_ kid's contacts to Google, and you're
uploading _my_ Wi-Fi access point unique GPS location, etc.

I've always said it's rude for people to use Android with a Google Account.
It's like detonating a suicide vest which harms everyone around you.

[The Real Bev]

Please forgive me for thinking that's overly paranoid. I've never sent
you email. You're not in my contact list. Neither are your kids. Does
google know we've posted in usenet groups. Yup. Does it matter? Nope.
The FBI knows all about me up to 1995, and nothing has changed since
then. Is that frightening? Nope. Are they interested in anything
about me since then? Nope, and if they are it's their mistake.

What actual harm do you envision?

--
Cheers, Bev
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run
out of other people's money." --Maggie Thatcher

[Alan]

You're talking to a paranoid narcissist who thinks he's important.

[The Real Bev]

I'm actually interested. Upon reflection, my life is probably an open
book. I get spam calls from home remodelers and Chinese women who want
to warn me about problems with my immigration documents and email from
women who have found me attractive, Nigerians with money to hide, and
pharmaceutical vendors who want to solve my erectile problem.

I can't imagine that anyone would find my activities/communication a
source of profit worth pursuing. Accordingly, I wonder what the people
who worry about such things worry about.


--
Cheers, Bev
I can picture a world without war, without hate. I can picture
us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.

[Andy Burnelli]

The Real Bev wrote:

> Please forgive me for thinking that's overly paranoid.

No. What I said was correct. You simply don't understand.
You don't know enough to understand. Unfortunately.

And that's OK. It's OK to be ignorant.
But you should _know_ that you're ignorant. That's all.

Most people don't understand a word of what I'm saying.
I doubt you do either.

It's not your fault.
Most people know nothing.

I know what Google uploads. I know what they do with Wi-Fi.
a. Why do you think I don't have a contacts.sqlite file The Real Bev?
b. Why do you think all my access points are hidden & with _nomap?

Do you think I'm stupid?
I know what you don't understand.

> I've never sent
> you email. You're not in my contact list. Neither are your kids.

Oh Jesus. It wasn't meant literally. Think about what I said please.
Read what I said again please. Don't take it literally.

You're harming _everyone_ around you by having that Google Account.
Again, I'm not chastising you.

Everyone in _your_ contact list is being harmed, even if I'm not in it.
Everyone anywhere near you who has Wi-Fi is harmed, even if it's not me.

That's what I meant by the suicide vest.
You don't have the knowledge I have to understand.

But you should trust that I'm not stupid.
I'm not like the iKooks are who think like kindergarten children do.

I'm expecting more from you, the Real Bev.
I don't really expect you to understand anything I say.

But I expect you to take what I say seriously.
It's like when the USA said Russia was invading.

The intelligence community knew a lot more than we did.
And I know a lot more than you do.

Again, I want to be very clear I'm not chastising you.
You don't know what I know.

But take me seriously.
Because your response above makes me think you think I'm stupid.

Simply because I know what you do not know.

> google know we've posted in usenet groups. Yup. Does it matter? Nope.

Well, that's a subject for debate. Certainly I called the FBI to report Rod
Speed seriously setting up a murder plot for me, and I told the FBI who I
was, so they certainly know that name (which was retired that very day).

And certainly they could figure out what name I moved to.
But I'm not hiding from a TLA.

Let me give you some sound advice, which is there are only two or three
people on this newsgroup who know more about Android than I do, and those
two or three people are a LOT smarter than I am (I readily admit that).

But you're not one of them.

So you really need to take what I say seriously if you want to learn
anything about privacy. You don't have to care about privacy, of course.

But take me seriously when I say if you don't care, you are putting
everyone around you at risk _because_ you don't care.

Again, I'm not chastising you because most people are stupid.
And most people don't care about other people.

I'm not. And I do.

> The FBI knows all about me up to 1995, and nothing has changed since
> then. Is that frightening? Nope.

I've had a TSSI security clearance for years, before I retired.
They know all about me too.

That isn't the point.
You don't just roll over and surrender just because they know who you are.

We're not hiding from the TLA's. We can't. Almost nobody can.
Even Osama couldn't hide from them for more than a decade.

And he certainly didn't get anywhere near a computer, now did he?

> Are they interested in anything
> about me since then? Nope, and if they are it's their mistake.

You don't get it but maybe you will over time.
We're not hiding from TLAs. We can't.

> What actual harm do you envision?

Below is a _hypothetical_ situation - consider it metaphor so you
understand the severity of the suicide vest you are wearing.

When I say "me" I mean _everyone_ you contact on your phone, or who is near
you, which "could" be me specifically, but I don't mean it below that way.

To wit...

If you have a Google Account set up on your Android phone... and if you're
doing all the "normal" things people who make that mistake do, then you're
violating the privacy of everybody around you every second of the day.

You may not realize that you have that suicide vest on and that it will not
only get you but everyone else, but you have it and you're detonating it.

To wit, why are you uploading to Google servers the EXACT GPS location of
my Wi-Fi radios, using the UNIQUE identifier for each of them, which only
traces back to me since the GPS and the BSSID are unique to my home?

Why?

To wit, why are you uploading to Google servers my contact information, and
that of my children, and their friends, simply because you don't realize
that using the GMail app does that automatically without your knowledge?

To wit... (this one you're probably not doing - but many people are)

Why are you uploading photos of my precious children at private and public
events and then uploading not only the photos but the EXACT GPS LOCATION
where they're taken, without my consent? With facial recognition also.

I could go on with the suicide vest you're wearing, but I don't want to
inundate you with information.

Bear in mind, the iKooks are so stupid they can't understand a word I said,
and even if they did, they're of so low IQ they'll forget in a day or two.

But I expect you to take my lesson seriously because I've never lied to you
and I've never spoken an incorrect fact to you - and you know that.

This is deadly serious.
You are wearing a suicide vest, and you don't care that You blow up, but
the problem, as I see it, is you are destroying everyone's privacy around
you.

All because you don't understand a word I just said.
Again, I'm not chastising you. It's not your fault.

But I'm sincerely trying to educate you.
You don't know enough to understand, most likely.

But take me seriously please.
Because what I say is correct.

[grinch]

On 21/01/2023 18:49, micky wrote:

> My car is distinctive because of the model and bumper stickers.

Some day you might want to look up what police profilers (& psychologists)
say about people with bumper stickers plastered all over their cars.

[nospam]

In article <tqi57b$1gv7$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli

<sp...@nospam.com> wrote:

> Do you think I'm stupid?

don't ask questions for which you won't like the answer.

[Andy Burnelli]

nospam wrote:

>> Do you think I'm stupid?
>
> don't ask questions for which you won't like the answer.

Hi nospam,

What's sad about you is you always respond like a kindergarten child would.

Instead of helping The Real Bev understand how horrible it is to enable
Google to control not only her privacy but that of everyone around her.

What's doubly sad is you're the _smartest_ of all the iKooks, which isn't
saying much as your IQ and lack of education is apparent in your responses.

But at least you could have tried to _help_ The Real Bev, instead of trying
to insult me, when that's impossible - and you're too stupid to know that.

I'm not trying to insult you - because that's equally impossible.

But I am trying to make the point you own no shame whatsoever, no morals,
no good intentions, etc., You're a despicably unprepossessing human piece
of shit, and you prove that every single day.

You have no intention of helping her understand what she's up against.
I do.

[Allodoxaphobia]

I've often been curious about that observation.
No bumper stickers here....

[Carlos E.R.]

None.

We, in Europe, are not concerned, as our data protection agencies have
not complained. And they are quite sensitive to Google's antics.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Andy Burnelli]

Carlos E.R. wrote:

> We, in Europe, are not concerned, as our data protection agencies have
> not complained. And they are quite sensitive to Google's antics.

Does a typically configured Android in Europe NOT enable "Wi-Fi scanning"?

To The Real Bev,
a. Carlos is a moron (see why, below)
b. But it's not just Carlos who doesn't know what I know about privacy
c. You don't either - and that's OK

The point is that, if you want to believe ignorant people like Carlos is,
the you should ask them the answer to these rather simple questions below.

Plesae ask Carlos to tell you what his Android 12+ phone says for:
Android12 Settings > Location > Location Services >
Google Location Accuracy = (ask Carlos)
Wi-Fi scanning = (ask Carlos)
Bluetooth scanning = (ask Carlos)

Even if you have every app that needs GPS set to "Allow only while using
the app", many of those apps will ask EVERY TIME for "precise location".
Android12 Settings > Apps > Permission manager > Location > {app} >
Use precise location = (ask Carlos)

With respect to just these three well-known components of Android...
Google Location Accuracy = assisted_gps_enabled
Wi-Fi scanning = wifi_scan_always_enabled
Bluetooth scanning = ble_scan_always_enabled

Ask Carlos to tell you what these are set to for his Google Maps app.
android.permission.ACCESS_BACKGROUND_LOCATION
android.permission.ACCESS_COURSE_LOCATION
android.permission.ACCESS_FINE_LOCATION

My request is based on logic. And sense. And facts.
Ask Carlos how, in Europe, the answers will be any different, please.
Thanks.

[Carlos E.R.]

On 2023-01-22 22:17, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
>> We, in Europe, are not concerned, as our data protection agencies have
>> not complained. And they are quite sensitive to Google's antics.
>
> Does a typically configured Android in Europe NOT enable "Wi-Fi scanning"?
>
> To The Real Bev,
> a. Carlos is a moron (see why, below)
> b. But it's not just Carlos who doesn't know what I know about privacy
> c. You don't either - and that's OK
>
> The point is that, if you want to believe ignorant people like Carlos
> is, the you should ask them the answer to these rather simple questions
> below.

I'm flattered. Instead of reasoning, you resort to insults, thus you
have lost the discussion.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[sms]

There is nothing more flattering than being insulted by our favorite troll!

[sms]

On 1/18/2023 9:05 AM, AJL wrote:
> On 1/17/2023 11:38 PM, sms wrote:
>
>> <https://www.insider.com/use-this-google-maps-trick-to-find-your-exact-parking-location-2017-8>

>
> I'm surprised how far my key fob will transmit. So I hit the lock button
> twice and listen for the honk. Course it gets less useful as my hearing
> declines...

On all of our vehicles I replaced the wimpy Toyota horn with these
<https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000F5DQWY>, though not for the purpose of
finding my car. However I have also used the emergency button on the
remote to locate my car, most recently in a multi-level parking garage.
A GPS locator would not help much in a multi-level garage where you
remember that X & Y location, but not the Z location.

[Carlos E.R.]

In those, I take a photo :-)

They usually have numbered slots, and if not, the columns are numbered,
and maybe with different colours based on the Z coordinate. I aim to get
all that and my plate registration, just in case it disappears.

To be on-topic, the photo I do with my mobile phone ;-)

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[AJL]

On 1/25/2023 9:39 AM, sms wrote:

> I have also used the emergency button on the remote to locate my car

In both my cars the key fob's emergency button makes the car start
continuously honking. This may draw unwanted attention from folks
nearby thinking there's a problem and if nothing else can be annoying.
That's why I just press the lock button twice. That produces just one
honk which is usually all I need to get close enough to find it. If not
one second honk may sometimes be needed...

[The Real Bev]

On 1/20/23 3:41 PM, The Real Bev wrote:

> On 1/19/23 5:30 PM, Andy Burnelli wrote:
>> The Real Bev wrote:
>>

>>>> Better to get an app which doesn't use the Internet so it can't report back
>>>> to the app developer and which serves your purposes alone totally offline.
>>>
>>> I have no data plan. Having a GPS-only function is essential.
>>
>> Hi The Real Bev,
>>
>> I don't disagree with you that any app that is fundamentally a GPS app,
>> should be able to point you toward your car WITHOUT needing the Internet.
>>
>> All it should need is GPS, and, a compass bearing and distance to your car.
>> Luckily two free apps were suggested in this thread that do just that.
>>
>> This free app points to your car's location & tells you the distance to it.
>> *GPS Waypoint Finder* by keuwlsoft
>> free, ad free, gsf free, 3.9 star, 1.35K reviews, 100K+ Downloads
>> <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.keuwl.gpswaypoints>
>> That app does not need the Internet and doesn't even ask for the Internet.
>
> Downloading even as we speak, but the play store seems a bit balky. I
> was hoping that there was one like this that would tap into a google
> off-line map and show the actual locatiou, but an arrow and distance is
> probably good enough.

I was initially disappointed. I tried several other compass/waypoint
apps and discovered that the phone's GPS function is fine, it's the apps
that seem to have problems. AND THEN one of the apps told me to start
moving so it could figure out where I should go. VOILÀ! The GPS
Waypoint Finder arrow stops working when you stop moving, but points in
the proper place once you start again. It insists on reading in meters
even though I told it to use REAL measurements, but that's life -- I can
just pretend they're yards instead of meters. Close enough for
government work.

I liked the GPS Waypoint Finder best. One had a very nice compass
(Compass GM), but you had to feed waypoints in by hand. No. I also
installed Find My Car by Disciple Skies, which has nice big idiot-proof
buttons. The 'take a picture' function didn't seem to work properly,
but perhaps that was user error. Easily dealt with in any case. Works
fine without wifi, but wifi will give you a map too.

>> Since most people have a Google Account on their phone, _they_ can test for
>> the team if offline Google Maps still do the find-my-car feature or not.

Nope. I give up.

> I hunted, with no success. Android 11, not sure which Maps version. I
> have a lot of apps, and Maps hadn't updated yet. The appearance was not
> at all similar to the instructions given in a previous post.

OSMAnd works fine, of course.

--
Cheers, Bev
"Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity
is not thus handicapped."
-- Elbert Hubbard, American author

[sms]

On 1/25/2023 3:12 PM, AJL wrote:
> On 1/25/2023 9:39 AM, sms wrote:
>
>> I have also used the emergency button on the remote to locate my car
>
> In both my cars the key fob's emergency button makes the car start
> continuously honking.

Until you press the unlock button a second or two later.

[AJL]

Ah. You're one of those two button 3 honk pushers then. I've HEARD about
your type (pun intended)...

[Andy Burnelli]

The Real Bev wrote:

> I was initially disappointed.

See below. I think I know the problem with the meters, and what I love
about discussing things with you is we can move forward to learn together.

We don't have to waste time arguing defending Google like with iKooks.
We both probably hate Google taking away our privacy equally so, right?

> I tried several other compass/waypoint
> apps and discovered that the phone's GPS function is fine, it's the apps
> that seem to have problems.

Agree. It's more likely an app sucks than your phone sensors suck.
If you want, you can _calibrate_ the compass (figure-8 stuff).

I have nice "device checkers" that can tell me how the sensors are doing.

*DevCheck* Device & System Info, by flar2
Free, adfree, gsf?, 4.5 star, 15.9K reviews, 1M+ Downloads
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=flar2.devcheck>

*Device Info HW* by Andrey Efremov
Free, adfree, gsf?, 4.7 star, 10.4K reviews, 5M+ Downloads
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ru.andr7e.deviceinfohw>

As always, I helpfully provide the full URL to save others time and effort.

> AND THEN one of the apps told me to start

> moving so it could figure out where I should go. VOILA!

When you mentioned that the compass wasn't working, since I always have a
good heart in striving to help others, I looked up how we can tell.

Funnily enough, most of the howto articles suggest checking your known
current location on Google Maps (blue dot accuracy is what it is).

*How to Calibrate the Compass for Android*
<https://www.lifewire.com/how-to-calibrate-compass-for-android-4771956>

*How to Calibrate Android Compass?*
<https://droidrant.com/how-to-calibrate-android-compass/>

*Improve the GPS Location Accuracy on Android Devices*
<https://www.makeuseof.com/how-to-improve-gps-location-accuracy-android/>

Note that last article contains two useful types of information:
a. It contains information about location accuracy above that of GPS
b. And it contains information about how to clear stale satellite data

What I love about going to an effort to help people is I learn more from
doing so in every thread (even the threads with those ignorant iKooks).

> The GPS
> Waypoint Finder arrow stops working when you stop moving, but points in

> the proper place once you start again. ]

Hmmm... I wonder if that's related to the fact that the app tries to figure
out the angle of the phone and if the phone isn't moving, it can't figure
out the angle perhaps? Dunno. Don't remember seeing that. Need to check.
<https://i.postimg.cc/yd90NgQD/gpswaypointfinder01.jpg> Bearing & distance

BTW, I wonder what happens if you move just your arm around a bit, without
moving from the spot you're standing in. I'd wager that might be the issue.

I don't remember seeing _that_ issue - but I definitely get the meters!
<https://i.postimg.cc/6qXn4WgY/gpswaypointfinder03.jpg> Feet versus meters

> It insists on reading in meters
> even though I told it to use REAL measurements, but that's life -- I can
> just pretend they're yards instead of meters. Close enough for
> government work.

Funny thing you mentioned that. I saw the _same_ problem when I updated to
the latest release of GPS Waypoint Finder. I figured it must have been me.

When I deleted the latest release and re-loaded the version 1.0 on my
archives (my Google Play Store client saves all the APKs ever installed),
then the feet/miles came back!

So it's not just you and I'm glad you mentioned it 'cuz I wasn't sure if it
was just me - but if we both have the same problem - then it's a bug.

The time you'll have to convert is if your car is parked "miles" away, as
that will be in kilometers, but in that case, remember 5 miles is 8 km. :)

> I liked the GPS Waypoint Finder best.

I'm glad you like it best as I do too, which is an indication that great
minds think alike in so much as it's a KISS app that doesn't ask for much.

All it wants is access to your location, which you can instantly save by
pressing the "FROM GPS" button as you can see below in my screenshot.
<https://i.postimg.cc/KjDLPXyF/gpswaypointfinder02.jpg> From GPS right now

Another "bug?" I saw with the latest version is that the FROM GPS button
was _missing_ (as I recall). Is that FROM GPS button missing for you?

> One had a very nice compass
> (Compass GM), but you had to feed waypoints in by hand.

Again, I fully agree with your sentiments you should never have to enter
any GPS coordinates by hand as that's just fraught with difficulty given
you have to _get_ them on one screen and then type them into another.

No way is any app "useful" if you have to enter coordinates in manually.

I've run into that problem when I was testing the apps where I agree with
you there should be a 'FROM GPS' button you just click to set the location.

At the time, the "trick" I used when I was testing apps was to use any app
that obtained the GPS and then I copied that location to the clipboard.

But that's just crazy I agree.
Any app that can't get the coordinates get an immediate strikeout.

> No. I also
> installed Find My Car by Disciple Skies, which has nice big idiot-proof
> buttons. The 'take a picture' function didn't seem to work properly,
> but perhaps that was user error. Easily dealt with in any case. Works
> fine without wifi, but wifi will give you a map too.

It would be nice to have a URL to that app, but let me look it up for the
team so the _next_ person reading this can just click on that link to see.
*Find My Car* - GPS Navigation by Disciple Skies Software
Free, contains ads, requires gsf, 4.3 star, 5.65K reviews, 1M+ Downloads

When I tested it, it removed all the location privacy settings I had set,
which is a flaw found in _all_ the apps which link in the GSF spyware.

Plus it has ads, and I never use an app with ads if an alternative exists.

>>> Since most people have a Google Account on their phone, _they_ can test for
>>> the team if offline Google Maps still do the find-my-car feature or not.
>
> Nope. I give up.

Most people think they need to be logged into a Google Account to use the
Android phone, but the reality is very few things need that account.

In my humblest of opinions, most people are incredibly stupid, in that they
don't realize how much they're giving up when they add an Android account.

Worse than most people being incredibly ignorant is that most people are
incredibly rude, since a Google Account spies on everyone around them.

I'm not rude to everyone around me; and I'm not ignorant of what the
account does, so as a common courtesy to the people around me, I don't ever
use a Google app to log into a Google Account when I'm using the phone.

Note you can log into a Google Account using a _non_ Google app (such as
you can when checking your Google email); just don't use a Google app.

One thing though, that I'm giving up by _NOT_ having an account on Android
is that I can't download Google Maps offline any more (it used to work).

But luckily I can get offline maps in a variety of apps (e.g., OSMAnd~).
And it's trivial to get traffic & addresses without logging into Google.

>> I hunted, with no success. Android 11, not sure which Maps version. I
>> have a lot of apps, and Maps hadn't updated yet. The appearance was not
>> at all similar to the instructions given in a previous post.
>
> OSMAnd works fine, of course.

Yes. The parked car finder in OSMAnd~ works well without any need for the
Internet and it automatically inputs your current GPS location for you.

It even has a parking-meter timer and more importantly, it gives pedestrian
directions, as it strives to send you along pedestrian pathways.

Notice this 'pedestrian routing' is better than what the GPS Waypoint
Finder will provide - but - in a parking lot - pedestrian pathways aren't
usually an issue so it's nice - but it's not normally needed for parking.

Bear in mind there are three versions of OSMAnd
a. OSMANd (on the Google Play Store repository)
b. OSMAnd+ (on the Google Play Store repository)
c. OSMAnd~ (on the F-Droid & GitHub FOSS repositories)

BTW, I'm not sure what the "free" OSMAnd does that is on the Google Play
Store repository but their payware OSMAnd+ is the _exact_ same app as the
freeware OSMAnd~ that is on F-Droid, so that's the one I suggest to use.

As always, it's a pleasure conversing with you as I learn from you, and, of
course, my goal, always, is to pour my heart out so others learn from me.
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to disseminate useful information
which, in this case, is to expound on the technical points of TheRealBev.

[Andy Burnelli]

Carlos E.R. wrote:

>> The point is that, if you want to believe ignorant people like Carlos
>> is, the you should ask them the answer to these rather simple questions
>> below.
>
> I'm flattered. Instead of reasoning, you resort to insults, thus you
> have lost the discussion.

Jesus Christ, Carlos.

*Do you realize, Carlos, that your claim is _impossible_ to be correct?*

For your claim to be correct, they'd have to build a separate Android.
Just for you.

Don't hate me just because _you_ own the belief system of an idiot.

[wasbit]

"sms <scharf...@geemail.com>" wrote in message
<news:tqrlfb$o0bo$2...@dont-email.me>...

>>> Does a typically configured Android in Europe NOT enable "Wi-Fi
>>> scanning"?

>> I'm flattered. Instead of reasoning, you resort to insults, thus you
>> have lost the discussion.
>
> There is nothing more flattering than being insulted by our favorite troll!

Actually you are the troll if it turns out he's right and you're wrong.

If you're not a troll, then you can answer this simple question correctly.

Why do you and Carlos claim the Android in Europe is a different version?
--
Regards
wasbit

[Chris]

Andy Burnelli <nos...@nospam.net> wrote:

Your script is broken again. You've nymshifted in the middle of a thread.

[Carlos E.R.]

I did not say it is a different version.

I do not know if there is a different version, what I know is that
Android has been fined in the EU (not Europe) several times for issues
related to privacy and personal data handling, and they had to correct
their practices, either in the EU only or globally. They had to move
service to servers based in the EU for this.

My comment was addressed to this paragraph:

]>> Please forgive me for thinking that's overly paranoid. I've never

sent you email. You're not in my contact list. Neither are your kids.
Does google know we've posted in usenet groups. Yup. Does it matter?
Nope. The FBI knows all about me up to 1995, and nothing has changed
since then. Is that frightening? Nope. Are they interested in
anything about me since then? Nope, and if they are it's their mistake.
]>>
]>> What actual harm do you envision?
]>
]> None.

]>
]> We, in Europe, are not concerned, as our data protection agencies

have not complained. And they are quite sensitive to Google's antics.

What I said is that the EU data protection agencies find no issue with
this, then there simply there is no issue, and it is simply some
paranoia of some people.

You are free to write to said data protection agencies if you are
worried. I am not.


--
Cheers, Carlos.

[sms]

On 1/28/2023 5:03 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2023-01-28 04:41, wasbit wrote:
>> "sms <scharf...@geemail.com>" wrote in message
>> <news:tqrlfb$o0bo$2...@dont-email.me>...
>>
>>>>> Does a typically configured Android in Europe NOT enable "Wi-Fi
>>>>> scanning"?
>>>> I'm flattered. Instead of reasoning, you resort to insults, thus you
>>>> have lost the discussion.
>>>
>>> There is nothing more flattering than being insulted by our favorite
>>> troll!
>>
>> Actually you are the troll if it turns out he's right and you're wrong.
>> If you're not a troll, then you can answer this simple question
>> correctly.
>>
>> Why do you and Carlos claim the Android in Europe is a different version?
>
> I did not say it is a different version.

Hmm, I don't see "wasbit's" posts, but I'm pretty sure I never said any
such thing!

[Carlos E.R.]

Right.

I only see 6 posts by him since September 2018.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Chris]

Andy Burnelli <nos...@nospam.net> wrote:
> Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
>>> The point is that, if you want to believe ignorant people like Carlos
>>> is, the you should ask them the answer to these rather simple questions
>>> below.
>>
>> I'm flattered. Instead of reasoning, you resort to insults, thus you
>> have lost the discussion.
>
> Jesus Christ, Carlos.
>
> *Do you realize, Carlos, that your claim is _impossible_ to be correct?*

As usual your categorical assertion is wrong

> For your claim to be correct, they'd have to build a separate Android.
> Just for you.

They could like MS did with Windows in the late 90s to comply with an EU
ruling. Or they could build in flexibility so that the system is compliant
to local laws. Google, MS, Amazon, etc have done the later by e.g. hosting
data pertaining to EU citizens in EU data centres. They've made other
changes too but you're not interested in facts.

Not only is not impossible it's actually easy.

> Don't hate me just because _you_ own the belief system of an idiot.

Projecting again as per usual.

[wasbit]

""Carlos E.R." <robin_...@es.invalid>" wrote in message
<news:41jfajx...@Telcontar.valinor>...

>> Why do you and Carlos claim the Android in Europe is a different version?
>
> I did not say it is a different version.

Then it does what he says it does because what it does is part of Android.

> I do not know if there is a different version, what I know is that
> Android has been fined in the EU (not Europe) several times for issues
> related to privacy and personal data handling, and they had to correct
> their practices, either in the EU only or globally. They had to move
> service to servers based in the EU for this.

You live in a state of denial that Android doesn't do what it does.

> What I said is that the EU data protection agencies find no issue with
> this, then there simply there is no issue, and it is simply some
> paranoia of some people.

Android does what he said it does. You didn't even check for yourself?

> You are free to write to said data protection agencies if you are
> worried. I am not.

I'm usually on the Windows ng but I came here to check something out.
When I read your messages, I wanted you to know it's you who is the troll.

You didn't even check. You just called everyone else wrong.
Just for explaining to you what Android does.

I knew what Android does. It's easy to check. And you didn't bother.

Therefore what "worries" me is that you don't realize YOU are the troll.
I won't be commenting further as I came here to find some information.
--
Regards
wasbit

[sms]

On 1/28/2023 6:46 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

<snip>

> Right.
>
> I only see 6 posts by him since September 2018.

I filter out the trolls so I don't see his posts. He could be another
nymshifted Arlen/Andy/Dean/Danny/etc.

[The Real Bev]

Worrying about trolls is silly. If we just ignored trollish behavior the
world would go around a great deal faster.

--
Cheers, Bev
'Politics' comes from an ancient Greek word meaning
'many blood-sucking leeches.' -- Mark Russell

[sms]

On 1/28/2023 5:42 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 1/28/23 8:21 AM, sms wrote:
>> On 1/28/2023 6:46 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> Right.
>>>
>>> I only see 6 posts by him since September 2018.
>>
>> I filter out the trolls so I don't see his posts. He could be another
>> nymshifted Arlen/Andy/Dean/Danny/etc.
>
> Worrying about trolls is silly. If we just ignored trollish behavior the
> world would go around a great deal faster.

It's easier to ignore them when your Usenet feed is not full of their
strange behavior.

[The Real Bev]

The rec.skiing.alpine has been like that since roughly 2000. It killed
the group. Better to keep the group and ignore the crap.

Long ago I used tin. I would select only the posts I wanted to see (or
maybe those I didn't, it's been nearly 30 years) and did something. The
crap disappeared. I suppose I could do the same by marking posts 'read'
and then reloading, but that's too much trouble. Easier to just ignore
things.

I learned to ignore ads. I don't even see them, much less read them.
My husband can do voluntary deafness, which I can't.



--
Cheers, Bev
Ride faster, I hear banjo music!

[Ken Blake]

On Sat, 28 Jan 2023 17:55:44 -0800, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
wrote:

That's what killfiling is for.

[The Real Bev]

I wonder about the location of the line between those who understand
that statement and those who do not.

--
Cheers, Bev
Is the Pope Catholic? Do bears shit in the woods?
Did Rose Kennedy have a black dress?

[Ken Blake]

On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 11:37:38 -0800, The Real Bev
<bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 1/29/23 6:21 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
>> On Sat, 28 Jan 2023 17:55:44 -0800, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On 1/28/2023 5:42 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
>>>> On 1/28/23 8:21 AM, sms wrote:
>>>>> On 1/28/2023 6:46 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Right.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I only see 6 posts by him since September 2018.
>>>>>
>>>>> I filter out the trolls so I don't see his posts. He could be another
>>>>> nymshifted Arlen/Andy/Dean/Danny/etc.
>>>>
>>>> Worrying about trolls is silly. If we just ignored trollish behavior the
>>>> world would go around a great deal faster.
>>>
>>>It's easier to ignore them when your Usenet feed is not full of their
>>>strange behavior.
>>
>> That's what killfiling is for.
>
>I wonder about the location of the line between those who understand
>that statement and those who do not.

Anybody who doesn't understand is welcome to ask here, specifying what
newsreader he uses. I or someone else here can help.

[knuttle]

On 1/30/2023 7:31 AM, Ken Blake wrote:

> Anybody who doesn't understand is welcome to ask here, specifying what
> newsreader he uses. I or someone else here can help.

Can you guys go get your own private room if you don't have anything to add
about apps and means for finding your parked car in a large parking lot?

This isn't the first thread that you keep saying the same old things which
have an interest to only you in a thread about parking lot car finder apps.

This isn't even the first newsgroup that you've done the same killfile
rants. It would be better for all of us if you got your own private room.

To get this thread back on topic, what car parking app do you use Ken?